The Plöp Cave

intotheblack: thank you for ignoring my upload of Hendrix disc 2 at 12.40 and my post about downloading disc 3 at 12.4´9 and offering to upload when done ... if I had known my efforts would be ignored and others would like to start a race for being first to post disc 3, but two hours too late for disc 2, I would not have bothered ... maybe my posts are invisible to most. thank you for your "attention"

AreKay: @intotheblack: first, I wouldn't assume that everyone is reading back through all the entries, a lot of us, me in particular, are actually doing this while working, walking dogs, taking care of kids... AND, as Bob Weir says, "too much of everything is just enough"... your efforts are as appreciated. Pig Street! keeps me up to date!!!!

Plöp: @intotheblack : If your discontent with how things are here, after being a registered user for less than a week, mean you can't be bothered anymore, so be it; I am sure everyone here wishes you well, and I am equally sure others here will step in and fill the gap that your departure will create. Thanks for upoading the Hendrix. If you find a better place than this, with kinder and more generous people who don't get you bent out of shape, pop back here and share the link. Thanks again.

intotheblack: @Plöp: thank you for your kind words and making me feel really welcome at the cave. The reaction of the other users to my post was okay. The sarcasm in your post did not go down too well, though. I do understand now that newly registered users are not welcome to express criticism or discontent. As you host this site, it is, of course, your decision to set up these standards. It might take you by surprise, but I do indeed know a better place with kinder people or at least kinder moderators. In fact a former member of this site who is now one of the moderators of „the better place“ pointed me into the direction of your place. He also warned me that those members of your site who are not considered to be „cave veterans“ will get frustrated sooner or later – in my case rather sooner than later. Please understand that I am not at liberty to share the link to the „better place“. As you are quite happy with the folks in the cave, you will not miss much. All the best and always remember what Neil Young once said „hey hey my my, rock and roll can never die. And once you‘re gone, you can never come back. When you‘re out of the blue and into the black“

casual observer: Disappointing to see a new poster come and go so quickly. I guess kindness won again.

Grum: @casual observer - disappointing indeed. I'll admit to finding it difficult to keep up with the postings here these days, so much good stuff, so little time. I've also lost count of the times I've been 'trumped' by other posters, but that's part of the fun isn't it? It's also, in part, because we are in different time zones across the whole world, which is actually rather impressive in my world. All the best to all Cavers and to the man, Plöp, for starting this off. And thanks for all the posts everyone.

jimg: Thank you Captain trips. I am sorry to see anyone go. I know that I struggled, for a while. Everyone was kind patient, & I am still here. You guys all jumped in, & helped me to learn how to make links, & send them here. I learned to calm down, stop rushing, bbe glad that anyone likes what I offer. That's why we have so many different types of music. New people please hang in there. If I could get this far, & make friends, anyone can! Have a nice day. jimg.

howlingwilf: As a one time most prolific poster, I hope I can voice an opinion. Reading it is purely voluntary. There are great aspects of the Cave, when it's at it's most human. Cavers rallied round to encourage and support jimg. There have been waves of sympathy and support, and great kindness towards various cavers. I've felt it myself. But perhaps there are less positive things at times. Whereas I found intotheblack a little premature and therefore extreme, the comments made were not without some 'truth'. I've felt attacked for posting too much, too little, for having opinions, for having no opinions and there have been snide comments seemingly (and clearly) made without addressing me directly. Great things happen in the Cave, I'll always be grateful for Plöp's hosting the place. But maybe a long, searching look in a mirror would sometimes be beneficial. I know I'm guilty of various things, but in mitigation I'd like to point out much of it comes from caring about what happens here and feeling involved. Interacting with others is one of the things I come/came for. Posting music is great, but a little human contact makes it even better. The distances, the variety of backgrounds and cultures and even the simple differences in time make things both richer and sometimes a little harder. Very few come looking for conflict, with the odd exception (very odd!) And I don't believe people react for no reason, real or imagined. 'Kindness wins' is a fine goal, but don't fall into the trap of thinking it doesn't require effort. I'm risking the axe for longwindedness, but as someone who has felt personally attacked here, and who has been told my help wasn't needed, I only want to enter a plea for tolerance. What's so funny about peace, love and understanding.

Pig Street!: Well said wilf and I am glad you come back to share your thoughts on the matter. As long as we stay to the principal of sharing tunes without letting the personality defects intrude we will have a productive environment

Pig Street!: But also in defense to Plop and the rest of the moderators it’s important to mention that sometimes we have to go beyond the comfort zone and adjust others attitude through axing and deleting to keep this read a smooth lovable and nurturing environment. For those who can’t hang ....just don’t.

speedymjb: One last thought and I'll get off my soap box - if you really want to see how bad things can get, try running your own blog for 10 years like I have over at So Many Roads. Many comments I have received are unprintable. And once, I was even criticized because the only music I posted was music I liked!

casual observer: Well, I gave @Plop my 2 cents worth re: into the black yesterday, but I'm still disappointed by the general reaction in the cave. What did he do? He posted the first two parts of the Hendrix and indicated he was getting the rest and would post asap. What was the reaction? People apparently couldn't wait to get their hands on near 50 year old music that's been around for ever and so jumped all over the guy (who's doing everything we ask of new members). The result, he's pi$$ed off. No surprise there, I would be too! But, because he's new, he recieves short shrift (bordering on arrogance in one case) only one apology and told he's welcome not to be here. "Kindness Wins" - hypocracy! PS If it had been me, the cave would have missed out on a terrabyte and counting of music. Without posters there is no chatbox. Feel free to sharpen your arrows :)

jimg: Casual I did not even see his music, until he was already gone. I did try to say that I appreciate everyone's music, but cannot always comment. People do not always comment on mine. They are happy to get it, or someone would say don't put that up again. When you're new, you tend to get over-anxious & take things to heart. I am still working on that. This is a wondeful place & does show kindness, if you ask. Have a nice night. jimg.

skinned knees: Pig Street!: I'm not sure how to take your comments about letting the personality defects intrude what are you suggesting that when we voice a little descent over how we feel the way were been treated we have some kind defect,read howlingwilf long winded comments made without addressing any one directly his word's I got the message under the guise of showing peace, love and understanding he took the chance to return to vent,Perhaps it's time to go beyond the comfort zone and understand other poster have opinion's and to say some are defected is out of line,and I agree the treatment of intotheblack was not in the spirit of the cave as I was lead to be leave.As a moderator the best you could come up with For those who can’t hang ....just don’t.

AreKay: I just don't understand the harm in more than one person posting the same thing. Since when was there a rule that you could lay claim to a post as long as you started it first. Who cares? Everyone wins. And to be honest, I tend to lean towards the posts of Cavers that I have come to recognize as very organized and have tagged files, often with booklet scans. Excuse my OCD! I don't complain when they are not, I am certainly capable of fixing anything. But if I have a choice, that is BETTER than NOT having a choice.

casual observer: @AreKay I like and respect what you bring to the cave but I think you have missed my point. We are trying to encourage new people to join in and post and add to the diversity of the available music. If we keep on $hitting on them and forcng them away we will finish up with mostly Grateful Dead and Allman related posts. I feel disrespected when people don't check what's posted and then post over the top of me (I'm certain we all do) If it was a long lost, never heard before beatles album I could understand the rush but not for 50 year old Jimi Hendrix, that is far from his best work. If we are going to have a slogan of kindness wins, we need to live it.

speedymjb: My 2 cents - I agree we as a community did not do our best when it comes to our treatment of into the black. That said, I just don’t think it is always possible to keep up with all the posts given the volume, time zones, and life outside this place, for example, I just realized that my good friend Hugh posted a Jerry Garcia show for me over a day and a half ago, I don’t ignore him intentionally - I just missed it. I’m sorry for that but no malice or harm was intended. Another example - I offered to repost some Zevon shows for marmcisco and moments later, someone else posted them, I don’t take offense to that -lit think that person was being disrespected to me - I think they just wanted to help a fellow caver. Can we be better - sure, we always can try harder. But I don’t believe that the actions of the majority of Cavers have any ill intent behind them,

tomconstanten: anyone who is sharing music for the main purpose of feeding their ego by getting thanks, is missing the point i think.....i tend to thank people if i grab something, but ive never understood ppl crying about repeat posts, lack of thanks bla bla... its music- post or dont post.... ive stopped coming around as much bc of this sorry to say

j: I didn't see anything said to into theblack that was rude in any way. Personally I don't care about thanks unless filling a request. If someone beats me to an ul , great.

Plöp: @ intotheblack: Bye bye. Thanks for that one Hendrix upload you shared. Hope you find a nice place to share on the internet.

AreKay: @casualobserver: this is just a dialogue, no intent to be malicious. But your entire argument seems to be predicated on an assumption that what happened to intotheblack (?) was done on purpose. It wasn't. No one $hit on him, everyone was happily going about their business. I just finished watching an episode of FBI, so this might sound too "lawyerish" but your entire argument is only valid if there was some malicious attempt to upstage this person. And there wasn't. You cannot have this argument without that underlying assumption, which is simply not true. As such, I feel it invalidates your point.